Speaker 1 00:00:08 Welcome to behind the paranormal with Paul and Ben Eino.
Speaker 2 00:00:17 Now there's such things as Astro bodies. What is the whole body and soul thing about will aliens save us if we careen off the cliff in the nuclear war? Hmm.
Speaker 3 00:00:30 Hello and welcome to the 946 edition of behind the paranormal with Paul and Ben youo, uh, coming to you from w O O N a M and FM radio and win sock Rhode Island on the paranormal radio app from talk stream, live on YouTube and via tunein.com. I'm Ben and those uplifting questions came from my co-host partner in paranormal adventures and dad Paul. And today we welcome back an old and dear friend who hasn't been with us in, in quite some time, actually. So he's coming back from his little hiatus.
Speaker 2 00:01:00 He's not so old, especially compared with me, but the one and only Shane Seaway is back with us for our open line show today, to help us tackle your questions on all kinds of paranormal subjects.
Speaker 3 00:01:11 So Shane, welcome back.
Speaker 4 00:01:14 I'm glad to be back. It's been been a while been anxious to, to get back.
Speaker 2 00:01:18 Well, welcome.
Speaker 3 00:01:19 Well, it's, it's good to have you back. And, uh, I guess we can just, we can just hop right into it, I suppose. Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:01:23 Yeah. Uh, yeah, let's do that. And, uh, let's give the, uh, callin number today, uh, from anywhere it's 4 0 1, uh, 7 6 6 1 2 4 0. If you'd like to call in, um, we used to have an 800 number, but nobody knew what that was anymore. So we just,
Speaker 3 00:01:40 Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:01:40 It's fine. Legacy technology. Anyway, let's um, get into our first questions from Facebook, Doug from Texas.
Speaker 3 00:01:49 Yes. And Doug writes to us, uh, greetings gentlemen, I have somewhat of a philosophical question. Paul, you have often stated that how can you be you without your body? Although you make a valid point, I can't help, but question the out of body experience, there are numerous accounts of people's spirits, uh, sole consciousness or whatever, floating above their seemingly lifeless body. Can you explain these experiences from multiverse perspective? Is there perhaps some validity to the notion of an Astro body quote unquote, uh, is there a multiverse equivalent to a so-called, uh, Astro body?
Speaker 2 00:02:26 All right, I'll just start then. I wanted to turn over to Shane and, and you, but, um, the question is a very good one, but it implies the island theory. Okay. That, um, what might be happening is, uh, you, you just, everything that's you is contained within your body and your mind, that sort of thing, uh, that does not apparently seem to be the case since there was non locality involved. But, uh, I harked back to our show, um, two weeks ago with Tom Dongo, uh, from Arizona who was a, uh, old hand at all this, and we talked about remote viewing and he said, remote viewing is not the same thing as an out of the body experience. And he talked about, um, a friend of his who lived about 350 miles away in Colorado. And he was, he would visit him by remote viewing and the dog could see him and he could smell the cooking and all his, all the physical senses were there.
Speaker 2 00:03:35 So I asked him, uh, how do you smell the, the spaghetti sauce cooking and how do you hear the dog and all this stuff, if you don't have your physical senses with you. And he said, those, those few, those words we love to hear nobody's ever asked me that before, which is bizarre because it seems pretty obvious to me. So if Tom is right, we're not dealing with any kind of, out of the body thing, it's more of a remote viewing thing. Now, every day we hear of near death experiences, people floating above their bodies, this kind of thing. That doesn't mean that you've got a separate Astro body. Now that's a spiritualist concept that they came up with cuz they had no other explanation for it. Uh, I think more remote viewing is, uh, perhaps a multiverse phenomenon. Uh, Astro bodies are easier to tie into an explanation for these things, but I think that we are, um, kind of bigger than all that. And we, and our whole consciousness is not local. So it's the same thing. You know, you're sitting in school, you should be concentrating on math, but your, your mind is wandering and uh, you know, your, your daydreaming. Uh, I think that is, um, uh, not necessarily, you're not leaving your body. You're just somewhere else now. I dunno if that's an adequate explanation, Shane would say you,
Speaker 4 00:04:58 Yeah. I mean, that was good. Um, I'll just talk about what happened to me and then people can take it for whatever, but sure. So I've had several experiences with that throughout my life. Um, one when I was childhood illness, which I had talked about on the show when it started first, where, um, I was in my body and, but it was in a state. So it was, it was a weird state. Like I was, um, basically dying and then I started to think of certain people. And when I thought of that person, I would go there, like I would just automatically be there. And, but it was like a, a swooshing feeling like I like a vacuum almost like I was being sucked to that person. And I, I had a thought of, and I was able to experience not wasn't them, but I was able to experience them and what they were doing and I felt their emotions and I heard their thoughts and everything.
Speaker 4 00:05:53 Um, but I was still me if that makes sense, but I was also able to experience what they were experiencing is, you know, and, um, and that, and I could move. I moved to different places, different houses, different people. Um, but then the, the next transition in that process was that I was looking at myself and I was no longer moving to other people. Um, I was myself looking at myself, looking down at myself and I watched, um, somebody pick me up my stepfather at the time, um, carried me down the stairs and I was above and I watched the whole thing and it had all took place. It wasn't in my, you know, imagination. I watched them put me in the car and then I woke up in my, in my body if, if you will. And then next thing I know I'm 30 feet above the emergency room parking lot.
Speaker 4 00:06:43 And I watched the car pull in and I watched them pull, pull me out of the, out of the back of the car, bring me into the ER. And then, um, at one point I wake up I'm in my body, but then next thing I know I'm in, I'm up in the corner of the ER and in the far corner. And then, um, but he was a weird thing was I was actually, I, I watched myself sit up and vomit and then lay back down and become unresponsive. But I, I actually watched myself do that. I watched my body do that. And, um, and I even have a memory of being in my body in doing that, but I also viewed it from the upper corner of the ER and um, outside of myself, if you will. Um, and that took place all the way up until I was in, um, brought up, I woke up in the elevator later on, um, whenever they got me stable or whatever, bringing me up to the ICU. Um, and that's where I remained, um, in my body, but it was like I said, it was two like transitions in that process. One was I could experience whoever I thought of, and then next thing I know, I was just watching myself.
Speaker 2 00:07:57 Yeah. That that's a beautiful illustration of non locality. I want to turn it over to Ben, but just before I do, there's, um, the notion of, uh, the S spatial strangeness in some paranormal experiences. And for example, I've dealt with, uh, people in what I believe are parallel universes who were up by the ceiling or down like in the floor or, or some somewhere would, would, it would make no sense, uh, spatially, uh, in reference to where I was. So that might be, could be another indicat. Maybe the after body thing is true. I, I just don't think so then.
Speaker 3 00:08:34 Um, well, that's a, that's a, that's a good question. I, uh, I I've been, I've been doing this sort of fun little experiment lately with my, with, with how, how I, I think, and it's, it's interesting because you can, you can kind of like get lo get lost in thought and what does it, what does it mean to get lost in thought we say it all the time, but it's like, what does that even really mean? And it's, it's interesting because I, I look, I look at a lot of, um, you know, sort of ancient literature and they refer to a lot of things as like rooms and like metaphysical rooms, almost like chambers of different things. And there's a particular thing I was reading. I was talking about the, uh, the chambers of the quote unquote heart. And there's a really fascinating sort of look at how, um, how, how we, we view, we view our bodies and that everything sort of has a, has a sort of a, a spiritual component to it.
Speaker 3 00:09:30 So like how one, you know, we always say, well, you should really follow your heart. Well, we don't mean like the beating thing in your chest. Right. Well, once you're meditating, right? Well, even then, you know, it could, you could follow it in that, in that sense as well, but it's a physical and it's serving a different purpose at the same time. So not everything has a compartmentalized, you know, just like single purpose. Everything has multiple purposes, right. You know, you say, well, you know, my liver doesn't just do X. It does a bunch of other stuff too. Right. It's like your lungs, your lungs not only provide you with oxygen, that ox that you know, is able to put oxygen in your bloodstream. If you control your breathing, it can also lower your heart rate. Right. So it's the same, the same sort of thing, but in a, in a different context of, well, what does this, what does this mean for the quote unquote, you know, astrol body and whatnot.
Speaker 3 00:10:19 I would say that it's a perfectly normal part of your regu, the, the, the whole body of the human person. I think, as we understand everything is just kind of being separate parts that just have no relation to each other is, is just false. You're right. Because that's where you get this whole idea of, well, you know, I may have this problem with a certain substance, but that's just my body's problem. My brain doesn't has nothing to do with that. It's like, well, no, it does. And, and it, it all kind of has to be unified as, as a portion of one's body. And, and let me, let me give you an example. It's like, you know, I, I wanna sleep in every, you know, I wish I could sleep every day, but I know I have to get up. My body wants something different.
Speaker 3 00:11:02 My brain wants something different, my mind, which is different than the brain wants something different, you know? And it's, they all want different things, but the problem is you need a unified sort of purpose to, to kind of exist. So where, where am I going with this? It's how we sort of explore our, our perception of, of reality. I've, I've kind of come down to the conclusion, is it, it meets us where we are and how we sort of experience it is kind of based on our perceptions of it. So, you know, I I've, I brought this up, um, cuz I, I I've, I've been thinking a lot about Tom Don go's interview that we did with him ever since we did it a couple weeks ago. Cause I'm like, okay, it's kind of interesting that he still refers to it as well. You know, it's I was a, I was a spirit, but I could still touch things and I could still smell things and hear things and all, all of his, his, his five physical senses and it's like, okay, well what does, what does that mean?
Speaker 3 00:11:57 And I think, I think the thing is how we, how we view ourselves is, is, um, based a lot on a, um, Neoplatonism, which kind of popped up with, with spirituality being, you know, um, your mind, your, your spirit and your body are two separate things and they have no sort of, um, you know, they have no relation to each other at all. You know, there's like a joke where it's like, okay, well, you know, I don't go for a walk. I take my body for a walk and that's like a very good example of Neoplatonism and you can see it a lot in, in, in, you know, sort of hyper spiritualist realms too, where it's like, okay, well, my body doesn't matter because it's just a flesh machine that I'm forcing it to do things for. Right. Because you know, I die and then I bring knowledge to some ambiguous place and then we all learn things and it's like that doesn't, I don't know.
Speaker 3 00:12:46 It just doesn't make any sense to me. So when we, when we explore our, not just our thoughts, I wouldn't be surprised cuz it sounds like Tom Dongo when he was explaining his methodology, it was the same thing. Hmm. Right. When we get lost in thought it's almost like the same thing. And so I think how we view our bodies is kind of like the, the stepping stone to understanding this whole phenomena. And instead of, you know, looking at man, I wish I could fit this Cartesian square into this round existential hole, but I can't quite do it. And it's like, well, probably because we need to start from square one, which is what is a body. Right. So that's, that's kind of my 2 cents on that.
Speaker 2 00:13:25 Yeah. And just, maybe Shane has another comment, but just I'm thinking back to our good friend, uh, Anthony peak, the great British consciousness researcher, in my opinion, probably the greatest pioneer of consciousness research of the 21st century so far. And uh, he points out, uh, the physical, the fact from everyday physics that, uh, matter and energy and you wanna say, you know, matter and spirit or whatever, the, the big dichotomy people set up really doesn't exist matter is, is energy. As a matter of fact, he points out that it, that if you take all the empty space out of our bodies, uh, we would be about the size of a grain of sand on the beach, um, you know, or even smaller. So I mean, uh, and it's just, and here comes the term vibration. It all depends on how things are molecules or VI, you know, whether something and even things that appear solid or not. I mean, I've met shamans who claim they can, that they knew other shamans who could walk through walls because of the empty space. And they knew all about this. So if Matt and energy, the same thing, where's the problem. I don't know, Shane everything coming on.
Speaker 4 00:14:38 No, he you'd took the words outta my mouth. I was gonna say the same thing, but you know, so you got energy and, and, and mass or whatever, but you get that one particle telling that a chair that it's a chair and that, you know, the particle telling us that we're, we're a human, we're a body and a cup is a cup and there's, but it's all energy. It's all, um, you know, mass, but, or mass is energy. And, um, you just got that one thing, telling each thing what it is. And no one fully understands that one particle yet. But, um, but it's very interesting because it, it kind of makes sense to, to everything I've, I've kind of like realized about our work and the paranormal and then my own experiences and everything. And, um, you know, especially getting down to, uh, vibration energy and frequency, which I'll get more into if we cover Peter's question today.
Speaker 2 00:15:29 So, oh yes, we will. Uh, but I think, uh, one more question on that, uh, uh, the theme of Cartesian dualism here, this is from Eileen and not sure where Eileen is from
Speaker 3 00:15:40 Okie doki. Uh, so Eileen rights to us. Um, so you think, uh, what we see as ghost slash spirits are really currently living people in a parallel slash multiverse, uh, where then do our dead people's soul spirits consciousnesses go,
Speaker 2 00:15:59 Okay, well, an obvious question, but I think we we've approached that a little bit in the last one. Uh, in my experience, you know, you wouldn't have, if you had a spirit, which first of all is, uh, a, a fully conscious spirit with full memories, uh, as some remnant of a human being, uh, full knowledge, et cetera, is not possible under the laws of physics. So physicists have told me, uh, in our branch of the multiverse anyway, the laws of physics and the world we live in. So I can think you can pretty much forget the, the pure spirit kind of classical spiritualist approach to that. All right, from that point of view. Uh, so I mean maybe, you know, go where, I mean, if there are matters of, in my experience, transition translation, even from many years of theological study, formal theological study, um, the, the, the, if you want to get religious, I mean the kingdom of God, as Christians talk about it begins, now, it doesn't begin when you die or it should anyway.
Speaker 2 00:17:10 And that's the whole point of faith and the church. And the whole thing is you begin now, death is kind of a minor inconvenience. It really has not much to do. And now when you're Protestant and Catholic were thinking may be quite different on that, but there is very ancient thinking that does not agree with the idea that, uh, you know, you, you do die and you know, the two parts of you separate, and one of you goes somewhere else. And the other goes nowhere. Uh, the whole point again, if you wanna stay on theology for a second, uh, in the gospels, they stress again and again, and again, the physicality of the resurrection of Christ, the physicality of the resurrection of everybody Thomas, when, after the resurrection was told, but you don't believe it, put your hand in my side, feel the wounds it's really me. I really, I'm not a spirit. He might as well have said, you know, so, so that, that's, I dunno, that's my two sons. I dunno if that makes it makes any sense, uh, Shane.
Speaker 4 00:18:11 Yeah. Uh, you know, I agree with that and I had a thought and it just <laugh> just so let Ben go. And where you, at my age, I gotta catch up with what I was. I had my thought,
Speaker 2 00:18:22 Well, Ben, go ahead and then we'll come back to,
Speaker 3 00:18:24 Ah, the trick is writing it down. <laugh> yes. That's why I have so many pieces of paper. Yes. Um, yeah, they do make a big distinction because they, they make a distinction even in, in, in, you know, I guess we'll, we'll stick with the old, with, you know, new and old Testament there, they make a distinction between spirits and physical things. Like they, they, you know, they, there's a very big dis even in some oddly translated things they make, they make a distinction between, you know, this is a physical thing happening versus this is a spirit doing something. And, um, there's a really fun sort of idea that there's really sort of two deaths. There's a spiritual death and a physical death. And, um, that they, that the, the idea is that one can still be alive, but be spiritually dead, and which is supposed, which is the worst kind.
Speaker 3 00:19:12 Um, and then there's the opposite side of the spectrum, which is, you know, you can be, you know, physically dead, but not spiritually cuz you know, you, you live on and they, you know, they, the thing is they don't really go into a ton of detail about it because at the end of the day, we don't really know <laugh>. Um, but there is sort of this idea that you sort of, you do your best to help those who have translated in their lives as, as sort of the idea that it's not really over, it just continues.
Speaker 2 00:19:41 Well, that's it. I mean, before I go back to shame, I get where Eileen is coming from. You, you go to wake you to funerals a loved one. You've known all your life, you know, parent or a child, God forbid a child lying there and they're not there. There's just the body of the remnant. So where have they gone? Uh, it's a, it's a, it's a perfectly legitimate question. Uh, I think one, however, has to ask the right question in order to get the right answer. Mm. So where were you like? Uh, we had a lot of people write in, gosh, it's 11 years ago. Now when your grandma, uh, translated and said, okay, well what do you got? How do you guys handle it? So I said, it's not so much that she's still with us. It's that we are still with her in many worlds where she never died and a wonderful relationship with her still, you know? And, and it's, uh, you have to have the multi, I think you have to have the multiverse awareness, which is in the gospel. It's in the Gita. Uh, well I've read the Quran twice. Yeah, it's in too, I think. And uh, it's just a matter of expanding your own awareness. So Shane what's what what's that you?
Speaker 4 00:20:54 Yeah, I mean, I'm right there with you guys and I was gonna speak on, uh, some things that are in the Bible, but I still have this one hangup for, for me. Um, and so, you know, we can't, we don't know everything nobody does and you know, we have theories and stuff, but so here I base my theories obviously on an experience and um, you know, that process to identify trends in our work and everything. And you, you come to your, you form your own conclusions. So, but what's happened to me several times and, and one was a very, very strong, powerful, uh, thing was I seen a body or it looked like a real body or apparition, whatever you want to call it that spoke to me that I never met this person in my life. And, and, but they died in real life or their body died, I should say.
Speaker 4 00:21:40 And, and, um, and years and years and years ago, and they came to me to give me information, to give to their loved one. And all that information turned out to be true. I had no way to know any of it. It was only kept between one person and not the person I was telling, um, that person's other relative. And there was no way for me to know this very detailed information and it all turned out to be a hundred percent accurate and, um, it, uh, it flipped their lives right. Upside down. And, um, and so that's the only, only thing that I I'm kind of hung up on that because that's happened to me a couple times, a couple more times, um, where, where that's happened. And I'm just thinking, like, if it's like, like we say, like, um, maybe our it's in a world where our mother didn't die or our grandmother didn't die and, or whatever.
Speaker 4 00:22:30 And we have that kind of connection there and emotions and the frequency of emotion can cross over into our place. And, and that's very strong. We know that and not just good emotion, but bad emotion too. And, and that's where we get in trouble with parasites. But, um, but where I've had those experiences and they turned out to be, you know, people that didn't know me when they were alive and I didn't know them. And they gave me information that turned out to be true that I wouldn't otherwise have had that my only hangup <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:22:58 Oh, no, no, I get that. Uh, but I have a couple of points on that before we go to our break and change gears in the second half hour. Um, what, why is it so physical? I have, well, I don't know. I, I, I might have had experiences of people, uh, who had died here and then seeing them, you know, fully dressed going about their daily lives or trying to communicate. And why is it so physical? Um, we, I think there are worlds in which they are very much aware of us though, cuz the laws of physics are different. And um, I still think, uh, multitude of bodies and, and facets of, of ourselves and everyone else, which are all part of ourselves are all part of the life of God if you will. So excuse me. So, um, that being said, uh, when don't we take our break and when we come back, we're gonna shift gears to an equally, uh, frustrating subject. Um, and we'll uh, you know, from, uh, off planet, if you wanna say, so, uh, you're listening to behind the paranormal with Paul and Ben you with our great, uh, guest cohost Shane Seaway today, open line show here on w O N 12:40 AM, 99, 99, 5 FM in new England's beautiful Blackstone river valley. We'll be right back. So stick with us.
Speaker 5 00:24:23 The night is alive. Join us and take a walk on the weird side. When you tune into the kingdom of nine hosted by Heather Wade, the finest in late night talk, listen, live free weeknight [email protected]
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Speaker 6 00:24:46 Local and live at 99 5 FM.
Speaker 2 00:24:50 And welcome back to behind the paranormal on w oh 1:00 AM and FM radio out of when socket, Rhode Island I'm Paulino Benino was here with me and Shane Seaway as well, special guest cohost today for our open line show. And let's um, shift gears here. Ben, if you want to go to the next question. Sure. Who's that from,
Speaker 3 00:25:09 Uh, it is from mark in Chappa of Rhode Island. Uh, and he says, I have read a, a bunch of UFO books over the last few years and I just finished two new ones by some top shelf, UFO experts. I have more questions about contactees than I had before as, as it goes. Um, if they had all, if they are all in touch with ETS, why are the et messages so different? That's a good question. Uh, are they really, uh, perfect or are they sketchy? Why are the messengers and messages always different in one book? Uh, the writer has been, uh, I need the other page.
Speaker 2 00:25:43 Oh, sorry. <laugh>
Speaker 3 00:25:45 Uh, in one book the writer has been taken for spins and UFOs to two D uh, to two different planets. Are we supposed to believe this? What do you think?
Speaker 2 00:25:53 What do you think Ben?
Speaker 3 00:25:54 Uh, you know, what's funny. I, I, when I, I was recently on, on another podcast the other day and um, I, this question came up, um, cuz we were talking about environmentalism and uh, the quest, the question from the, the hosts, um, was essentially, well, what do you, what do you think of ETS that are like, well you gotta stop messing up the planet. And I was like, well, first of all, why would they care? And B um, <laugh> second of all, why, you know, what would be, what would they gain out of it? And they, the third thing is, you know, all, all of these, I don't, I don't, what's the word, I don't disagree that something happened to somebody. I don't disagree that there, that there was an experience somebody had and they received a message. The thing I, I do kind of question is our perception of it because you know, somebody could tell me something and I'll just complete.
Speaker 3 00:26:49 I could, I could just completely misinterpret what they're saying. For example, dad, you could say something like have a nice day. And if I catch an inflection, that's like, is, is he telling me to not have a nice day? What is he telling me? You know, what is <laugh> if, if you're dealing with something this just occurred to me now. So this is a live thought, um, is, you know, if you're, if you're dealing with something that isn't, that's, we're just gonna assume it's just not human. It's completely other, you know, you can't read body language. It's like 75% of all interaction is body language and like inflection. And if you don't like get that, you know, words coming to, you could just be, you know, essentially meaningless, right. Or we could just ascribe meanings to them, which could be why, you know, they're all different.
Speaker 3 00:27:35 Like I said, not saying that someone's not experiencing something because I'm pretty sure they are, you know, they probably wouldn't have been as affected by it. If something, something didn't happen. Mm. But here's the thing. I, I think our, our perceptions of it, it's all, it's all based on human perception, which is flawed <laugh> yeah. In many ways. And sometimes, you know, we put our own thoughts into messages. It's like someone can read, I don't know, some religious book and be like, they're talking about this, the end of the world's coming. And it's like, no, it, it could be something completely different and it's, but we're all reading the same thing, but we're getting different things from it.
Speaker 2 00:28:10 Well, and people that read our books who get different things from which I think disconcerting Shane what's a, you,
Speaker 4 00:28:16 Yeah. I, I've never taken like a trip on a UFO, like some of these people and they've, but I've had experiences with these things at night. Um,
Speaker 2 00:28:24 Yeah. You made both.
Speaker 4 00:28:26 Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:28:26 We were together one night and that happened.
Speaker 4 00:28:28 Oh yeah. Yeah. And so since a young child, I'd see these things in my room and, you know, typical gray little ones. And then there was always like a, a big tall one that was in charge and, um, they never spoke to me. They had no emotion. So it was hard for me to read. So then talking about the perception is, is, could be totally accurate because I could have made up whatever I thought they were thinking or whatever. Um, but all I know is, um, like as an adult, I haven't had any experience with these for a while for, and there's a reason for that. But, um, they feel the same as a parasite when you're in. I don't think that they're the same, I think, but I don't trust them because, um, I think the parasites are different than these things that, that visit people at night, abduct them or whatever.
Speaker 4 00:29:14 I, I, but I think they're, they feel the same. They have the same energy. They don't feel good to me. Um, and, but I think the, I mean, they could, they could be the same thing as these parasites that are, that are attacking people that are. Um, but for some reason I think there's something different about 'em, but they're not good. And I don't care. Um, I know some people have had good experiences, but some people have started off having good experiences with parasites too. They'll come across as a nice, cute little girl or, you know, or their, their grandma that they love so much that passed away and whatever it takes to get you to pay attention to it and to buy into it. And so you you're feeding it that attention, that energy, and then that's when it flips it, everything on you. So, um, but I've never had them talk to me, never. And I'm not saying no one else has, but I'm just saying I don't, I don't trust them. I don't trust it at all.
Speaker 2 00:30:09 You know, I agree with both of you. Um, certainly, um, uh, I don't know if mark is reading the same books I am, but I'm, I'm trying to, uh, read every book, not every book, but at least one book by anyone we have on the show, you know, in, in ample time before they come on. Uh, now next week we have Kathy Martin who is, uh, not only a good friend, she's a, a, a cohost of the show from time to time. And she has written a new book, uh, which, uh, and years ago she told us that she had had, uh, some personal experiences, um, with, uh, this sort of thing and had not mentioned it publicly because she was a naturally concerned for her credibility. Uh, she is the niece of Benny and Barney hill, the, the, the first well publicized abduction experience, uh, from 1961.
Speaker 2 00:30:59 And her book is a kind of a tell-all book now. And I was pretty much knocked sideways by it. I mean, I just, it's amaz, I said, we're gonna talk about that next week. Uh, Mark May be interested in, uh, that cuz all this is gonna come up. And then on June 26th, we have Preston Deni back and Preston has written a book about the Dolly case from Florida Dolly as in D O L L Y a nickname of a girl, uh, who had, uh, these experiences. And I, I agree with Ben. I have never I've encountered what I believe were aliens, but in, in, in, in the context of Poltergeist cases, uh, that were, they were supposed to have been demons. I was working with a priest at Ellaine Warren, and I've mentioned this a hundred times on the show. They just didn't seem like anything but alien to me now, whatever that word may mean.
Speaker 2 00:31:49 So, uh, these two shows, if anybody who's interested in this, uh, those who are interested in this subject that will wanna listen to next week show on June 26th, when we really get into this now the Dolly case, uh, I I'm halfway through the book, it's called symmetry by Preston Deni and I have five pages of notes and questions already. Now we're never gonna get to all that on the show, but it's just, I mean, every everything in the book is possible, you know, little imagination, little open-mindedness, it's all possible, but I don't trust it. I agree with Shane and, and as Ben and, and Ben too. So we'll leave that for those shows and, uh, I think people will be interested. So who's next there, Ben?
Speaker 3 00:32:32 Uh, so we have Pam from Whitby, England. Oh, okay. And, uh, Pam writes to us, there are a lot of new UFO books around and some of the experiences, experiences are way out there.
Speaker 2 00:32:42 Yeah. We, we have a number of questions on this same subject,
Speaker 3 00:32:45 Right. Uh, you guys have studied theology you more so than I did. Uh, why do so many of these et contacts, experiences remind me of messages from the Virgin Mary and other saints, I'm thinking of Fatma Lords and the rest.
Speaker 2 00:32:59 Yeah, that, that's a really, really good question. Uh, and we we've dealt with that here and there on the show. Uh, it's very interesting that, uh, cause Fatma, LUS were, uh, Fatimas and Portugal LUS is in France and uh, in the, uh, 19th century and in the early 20th century, respectively, there were apparitions of, of what was believed to be the Virgin Mary to, uh, some children and, uh, the Catholic church actually, which is very persnickety about these sorts of things actually accepted those as legitimate miracles. However, I don't know if they considered the fact that those, uh, the places where these occurred were considered to be locally fairy caves or fairy grottos as they were called. And there had been constant apparitions of weird creatures, uh, and strange figures, including ladies and white or blue since pagan times or even before that. So I find that quite interesting and we often find that that these could be what today we call flap areas.
Speaker 2 00:34:07 So, um, I'm not sure I trust those things either. And they really do kind of remind me of some of the alien experiences today. You know, now the Romans would see weird stuff in the sky and they call them flying shields all the way through history. Uh, people have seen things and put it in their own cultural context. So, um, since, uh, you know, when, when everybody was, uh, when Christianity pretty much was, uh, dominant in Europe and, and other various people would see the Virgin Mary, uh, or assume it was the Virgin Mary, regardless of what she said, uh, or other things in the sky, the, the whole miracle of the sun as it was called at Fatma was kind of a major thing. Uh, and then today, when in a more secular time for better, or for worse, uh, people see people from other planets saying the same things doing in many ways, the same things. And, uh, I find that interesting. I know Shane.
Speaker 4 00:35:04 Yeah, I agree. The, um, like, like we said, I don't trust too many other things. I have been, um, had messages or, or contacts from what I'm, what I say is God. Um, he's during my experience at where I was taught, how to, how to help people with negative entities, um, I don't think a parasite would teach me how to get rid of itself.
Speaker 2 00:35:26 No, no, some of this is entirely legitimate.
Speaker 4 00:35:29 Absolutely. But I, I still don't trust a lot of these things, so we gotta be very careful. And, and so with me knowing, um, how to, how they tick kind of sense a young age and being able to, to get rid of 'em fairly, very easily because I understand the mechanics behind it all. Um, so now I'm starting to, like, I, I think more about these visits that I've had since a child, because I've had things, those nightly visits, um, I think were only meant to maybe kind of like deter me from doing or, or putting into place what I was gifted by God, this information. And maybe they were trying to scare me off or something like that because they would never approach me during the day was only when I was helpless and I was asleep, would, would they show up? And, um, you know, and I mean, I've felt, um, excruciating pain just, uh, probably four years ago in this house.
Speaker 4 00:36:22 And that was, I think one of the last times it's happened to me. It felt like they were shoving something sharp and long into both my rib cages. And I woke up and I had puncture wounds and bruising mm-hmm and, um, but I was, when I, I in, you know, it was kind of like, I was kind of out of it. So I, I, I woke up and I felt this pain, cuz I could sense that they were there and I felt this pain in my sides and, and um, and, and I just black out kind of thing. And I wake up in the morning, I look in the mirror and sure not I got these bruises and everything. And um, but these, like I said, these things, um, I don't trust them and because I know how to get rid of them. They're only gonna hit me when I'm asleep. So, uh, they're, they're no good, but yeah, the they'll appear as anything they'll appear as your mom, your, you know, their peers, you know, the Virgin Mary, if they, if they need to. And I'm not saying that those things don't happen, I'm just saying, be real careful in what you buy into.
Speaker 2 00:37:18 Yeah. Uh, Ben sure. Then we'll get to a question version from
Speaker 3 00:37:22 Peter. Yes. Um, I think we should start off with a fun sort of comparison here. Um, mythology, right? Why, why are a majority of religions throughout the world? Um, are based around stories they're based around a narrative, right. And you know, we, we all, we all love to hear stories, but why do we like to hear stories? Because in some way, shape or form, we participate in them as we listen, you know, it's why we like going to the movies. It's why we like, you know, listening to people tell jokes or anecdotes because it, it helps us feel like we're participating in something. And there's a really weird thing that's happening now because we've put ourselves into sort of an odd intellectual box here in the modern world, um, where we've isolated ourselves from everybody else. And a lot of things due to 19th century, German scholars and many others, um, have contributed to this sort of weird separation that we've, we've participated in for the last, you know, 200, 300 years or so where, you know, we, we separate things as VI via rational or intuitive and never the Twain shall meet.
Speaker 3 00:38:42 And we're suffering the consequences of that now because we are sort of forced to deal with this reamp of the world around us. And I'm gonna expand on that in a little bit. Um, so as, as a mythology, I would consider every aspect of the paranormal mythology and I would consider it that not as, oh well it's myth, therefore it's not real because that became the definition in the 19th century. For some reason, the definition is it's a story we're participating in. So when someone, when you read, you know, um, you know, the story of king like can throw, you know, and how he became a Wolf, you know, we were like, oh, well that's dumb. But then, you know, we have someone on the show that's like, well, upright canine crypted. And we're like, that's it, that's, that's the thing right there. But here's the thing.
Speaker 3 00:39:31 There's no difference. It's the same stories that people are participating in. Right. So yeah, sure. The cultural context might be different, but here's the thing. The patterns will always stay the same because history repeats itself constantly because it's a pattern and we as humans live in patterns, it's why, you know, the, the upper crust or whoever you wanna say is in charge is trying so hard to break out of the human condition. We're doing our best to break out of it because that's the one thing that hasn't changed. You know, we may speak different languages, our technology's different, but the same people in ancient, Rome, Greece, wherever are all experiencing the same things we are today. The only difference is they experienced it ever so slightly differently because of how the world was viewed. They knew they were participating in a story and they knew that all these layers of existence were happening, happening all at the same time.
Speaker 3 00:40:29 You know, that's why religion was a thing because, you know, Sage something bad happens to you. I learned this really recently. There was a, there any artifact you you'd typically find, cuz AALS were really big back in the day. Um, a lot of Romans and Greeks would typically have a Medusa medallion that they would wear around their necks. And there was an idea, but put out by Aristotle that if you reenact something bad, something bad won't happen to you. That was kind of the idea behind Greek tragedies was if something bad happens and if you're witnessing it and a part of it, then nothing bad will happen to you. So the idea was you have something bad to ward off something bad, you know, the same kind of idea with gargoyles, almost that it's, that it's, you know, these things don't change. They they've stuck with us forever.
Speaker 3 00:41:13 You know, the idea of having, you know, these quote unquote demons or devils that are out there to trick you has been around forever. The idea of having people visiting you from the sky has been around forever, but here's the thing. We are no closer to figuring out what's happening with all of the technology around us. All we have is the human experience. So we have all these things and all these patterns that will just constantly manifest over time that we're all participating in. The only difference is we all think we're the main character <laugh> and, and we're not exactly we're all participating and we're all, you know, we all have our, our parts to play and none of us is the main character. Right. And that's my spiel. Well
Speaker 2 00:41:56 Put, uh, let's get to a question from Peter in Bogota, Columbia, Peter Shelley, uh, one of our guest
Speaker 3 00:42:03 Cohos, uh, first thing Peter says is, uh, welcome back. She, um, a few years ago on behind the paranal.com, you mentioned some kind of an object, perhaps a glass globe that had an ability to pick up reflections of paranormal images. Can you please redescribe this device and share what experiences you had with this?
Speaker 4 00:42:21 Yeah, so it's not a particular glass globe or any particular item, it's various different things. So let me explain. So what I was describing was, uh, glass objects that only refl that only reflect light, uh, not only reflect light, but alter its vibrational frequency. So it's, it's altering the light. It can, you know, um, like water, water can change direction. It can, it alters the light. And so we have, we have, um, light and we have energy. We have, um, uh, so light and, and, and some sounds that we can't hear some light spectrums. We can't see, so we need something, a medium to, to transform it so we can see these things. So I, I realized this a long time ago when I'm doing my investigations is why are most the most active homes surrounded by rivers or streams or, you know, any water body, but almost always rivers and streams because there's an inconsistency in the water, just like the best, um, captures using, uh, the images that you use when with these glass objects I was talking about, um, I formed that off of alright.
Speaker 4 00:43:28 So I think something's happening with the water, the, the, what rivers and streams being inconsistent, it's transforming frequency somehow to allow a different parallel or, or different, um, uh, world or whatever, to intersect with ours. It's it that medium it's, it's, it's allowing it to cross over and now we can have an exchange. They can mess with us, or we can see something that happened at a different time. And, um, but also these parasites kind of can come through there and we're able to see, feel, hear them, uh, but something is needed to, for that to happen. Just like dogs can see things that we can't see and, and animal cats, same thing. Um, there's things that we can't see we can't interact with, but we need something to allow that, that convergence to take place. And so, um, S and streams seem to be a, a, a strong, medium in allowing that process to take place where it is totally responsible for it.
Speaker 4 00:44:23 Um, so, uh, so a light wave is an electromagnetic wave, which travels through a vacuum and space, light waves are produced by vibrating electric charges and electrical magnetic wave is a transverse wave, which has an electric and magnetic component electric who magnetic waves exist with an enormous range of frequency. And, um, so refraction is when light waves change direction as a pass from one medium to another light travels, um, slower in, in the air vacuum and, and so slower in water as, uh, light travels into a different medium, the char the change in speed bends the light and changes, uh, the original frequency and allowing us to see something. So, um, also the same thing with these flat areas, all these flat areas that Paul was talking about, they almost all of 'em are surrounded by represents stream so that, um, these energies and frequencies that we can't see or interact with on a daily basis that are in parallels are now, um, can converge with us through the process, uh, through the water that changes that frequency and, and brings it into ours.
Speaker 4 00:45:29 So we're able to see and hear and feel. Um, so when I said, like with these taking photographs and saying, so if we can do this, maybe, you know, through the process of, uh, um, reflective photography, it, maybe we can kind of repeat that and maybe capture inner images. Now we're only capturing light, and it's not the other interactions that we talked about such as like, you know, in, in a home where people have things going on or the flat areas at the rivers and streams responsible for, but the, but the, the imperfect glass. So it's gonna be like what, the ones that we found are most effective in capturing weird images, like legit, like crystal clear images of weird creatures and people, and, um, different times is it's inconsistent, just like the rivers are streams. So it's like blown glass, like old blown glass that might be thicker in one area, or, I mean, there's no.
Speaker 4 00:46:22 So you think about the crystal ball, people used to see, see things in the crystal ball. Um, I think a lot of people that use that are, are, you know, just scamming you, but I think there's something to be said for that because it it's gone back a long time. So, um, it's something that's altering those light frequencies that are, that's allowing us to, uh, capture images. So, um, I, I had a guy on my team Mike Sullivan years ago, and he, that was his purpose. So he did EVP, but he, we, we, we task him with, um, doing reflective photography and he was capturing some outstanding things and he could use anything. He could use an old bottle, uh, an old mirror things that are, like I said, work better when they were inconsistent, like old blowing glass or something like that. And was capturing just very, very vivid images of things that weren't there.
Speaker 4 00:47:11 And so there's a guy named William Lawrence that I've talked to, um, years. I haven't talked to him for years, but he come across, uh, he's an investigator and he come across the same type of, um, realization and he uses a different method, but he kind of, I guess, kind of combines it too. And he takes a clear bottle, uh, like a, a, a spring water bottle takes a label off. It puts water in, it, holds it up to the sun and it, the, the rays shine through the water in the, in the bottle onto a black object. And he'll take a picture of that. And he's capturing faces and, and people like in robes. And, uh, some of them I think is Lia. Other ones are phenomenal, uh, really good photographs, same, same type of idea, different technique, but really the process is, um, altering the, the light waves.
Speaker 4 00:47:59 And, and, um, and so, and I think there's, um, so much to be said, like, you know, Tesla recognized all this a long time ago, and who's gonna argue with him, but vibration energy and frequency is, um, you know, kind of like the secret, if we could figure that out, we could figure out the secret to the universe. And so when I think of like, so vibration energy and frequency, you, you think of, um, you know, God is the word, right? So they say, God is the word. Um, in the beginning, um, was the word, the word was with God and, and God was the word. The word was God. And so what's a word, right? Like spoken word, it's a sound, it's a frequency. And, um, and then, you know, you've got Jesus as, as the light. I mean, there, I think there's, we can, we can interpret things differently, but I think sometimes things are so right in front of us, um, that we walk right by it.
Speaker 4 00:48:56 And, um, I think, um, you know, when I had my death experience, I was told that emotion, that's how I help people is I manipulate emotion. And, um, and that's a frequency and I was told that. And so people have to, in order to get out of their dark place, cuz they're in a lower emotion, I have to elevate their, their, um, emotion, which elevates their frequency. That puts 'em in a better place. And Jesus gave us a good example right. Of, um, he is the light to be in the light. That's, he's elevating our emotions by, by not carrying dark emotions or lowered emotions with us. We're able to get, let go of those. Right. So, um, there's so much to be said with the light, the energy and the frequency, but, um, the capturing of those photographs is, is, um, we we're changing, we're manipulating or we're altering the frequencies of those light by taking reflective photography of water, um, or, or glass or mirrors or, or, or things of that nature. Um, and let tell you something there's, this is not paranoia at some of these. We've gotten mind blowing images and, and I totally believe it's because we're altering frequencies that we couldn't see with their eyes. Um, and we're bringing 'em into our spectrum that through that process,
Speaker 2 00:50:15 That's fascinating. I'm thinking too, of the photography of Stella Lansing, a lady from Sterling mass, uh, who wasn't, uh, almost in our listing. Yeah. It's in our area really. And uh, in 1960s she would take photos and, uh, she just had the knack of, uh, picking up about things that Shane has just described, you know, whether it was something Lynn she was doing. I don't know, I didn't know her, but I mean, we, we mentioned her in lectures and, uh, they were all sorts of examples of this. I, I knew Ted Sirios, uh, who in the early days, uh, mid 20th century was a guy who could look into the, uh, lens of a camera and whatever he was thinking would come out on the film. Sometimes they didn't even need a camera. They'd look at a packet of Polaroid film. And, uh, you know, I didn't, I was what behind the ears, but I didn't say anything illegitimate about it. Uh, he had an interesting life. He was well known to the police, but <laugh>, he had this talent, which was quite incredible. So, so there we are, I guess we're just about to, uh, out of time, Shane tell us where people can find out more about you.
Speaker 4 00:51:28 Yeah. Uh, just truo.com T R U E G H ost.com. Um, website's gonna be getting, uh, updated very, very soon, but my contact information is there and you can reach me through that.
Speaker 2 00:51:39 Very good. And Shane will be back with us in a month on June 12th, uh, for our next open line show. And if not before, and, uh, we're just really happy to have him back with us and let's get on with our announcements.
Speaker 7 00:51:51 Yes. And we have quite a few announcements, uh, especially this time of year. You know, we got lots of, lots of stuff going on. And, uh, the extra UFO festival is back after a two year hiatus that will center at the historic Exeter New Hampshire.
Speaker 3 00:52:05 Oh, that will, that will center at the historic Exeter New Hampshire town hall over the labor day weekend that September 3rd and fourth more information will be forthcoming. This is a great event sponsored by the Exeter area Kawanis club to benefit local children's charities. Uh, we plan to do our traditional live broadcast, uh, from the Exiter UFO festival on Sunday with a panel of speakers, the subject of our talk will be time storms. So with thanks to the great British researcher, Jenny Randalls, who coined the term, this is a very fun event. The whole town gets involved. It's really, really, really a wonderful time. Uh, restaurants will serve things like Roswell burgers, front final frontier, Franks and alien crunch, ice cream and more information to come.
Speaker 2 00:52:42 Yeah, I like the ice cream, um, visit our show website behind the paranormal.com with Shane's website, truo.com where you can find over 1100 hour, well, not on TRUS, but, um, <laugh> the paranormal you can find over 1100, a hundred hours of our regular shows and special broadcasts since 2008 from CBS radio achieve radio and here on w O N a M and FN, including, uh, the ones that have been restored in the [email protected]
and other areas. Uh, you can also hear many of these broadcasts on the major podcast platforms, including iTunes, apple, podcasts, and YouTube. Uh, we have a show app, a rather simple one it's free. Uh, it's right there on the, uh, opening page behind the paranormal.com and you'll be able to, um, uh, pick up our shows as they are posted online, the recorded
Speaker 3 00:53:34 Ones indeed. And, uh, our show website has a charity page with links to several good causes. Uh, we've adopted including hope for Hilldale cemetery in haver, Massachusetts, uh, USA cares, Canadian veterans advocacy, helping Haiti orphans, the Crohn's and colitis foundation of America, the sisterhood of ground zero. And most recently the Western Kentucky tornado relief fund.
Speaker 2 00:53:56 Okay. So what's on the front burner for next week, then.
Speaker 3 00:53:58 Oh, the front right burner has, uh, that's on next that's next week, May 22nd. Welcome back. Legendary Kathleen Martin for a jarring look into her new tell-all book, uh, with her own extraterrestrial contact, forbidden knowledge,
Speaker 2 00:54:13 Quite a book. I'll tell you, we leave you today with a thought from 19th century English, romantic poet, John KES, nothing ever becomes real until it is experienced. I'm Paul, you know,
Speaker 3 00:54:24 And I'm Benny know,
Speaker 4 00:54:26 And I'm Shane stairway. Thanks for joining us on our great cosmic journey. And we'll see you next time on behind the paranormal
Speaker 1 00:54:36 Return to this radio frequency 167 hours from now for another edition of behind the paranormal with Paul and Ben.