January 30, 2022 - #931 - "Death: Near or Far?" with Dr. Jeffrey Long (Rebroadcast)(1240 AM & 99.5 FM)

April 25, 2022 00:54:24
January 30, 2022 - #931 - "Death: Near or Far?" with Dr. Jeffrey Long (Rebroadcast)(1240 AM & 99.5 FM)
Behind the Paranormal with Paul & Ben Eno on WOON 1240 AM and 99.3 FM Providence/Boston
January 30, 2022 - #931 - "Death: Near or Far?" with Dr. Jeffrey Long (Rebroadcast)(1240 AM & 99.5 FM)
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Show Notes

Paul & Ben welcomed Dr. Jeffrey Long who, with his wife, Jody, are among the world's leading researchers and chroniclers of near-death experiences (NDEs). Some of the cases will shock you, as will some little-known NDE characteristics. See the video of this show.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 00:00:08 Welcome to behind the paranormal with Paul and Ben Eno. Speaker 2 00:00:17 What is the Speaker 3 00:00:18 Evidence for Speaker 2 00:00:19 Surviving after? Yeah, what constitute, what near death experie Speaker 3 00:00:26 Actually mean? Speaker 4 00:00:28 Hello and welcome to the 931st edition of behind the paranormal with pollen Ben Eno, coming to you from w O O N am and FM radio in when socket, Rhode Island on the paranormal radio app from talk stream, live on YouTube via tunein.com. I'm Ben in those lethal questions came from my co-host partner in paranormal adventures and dad Paul. And today we bring you a new guest on a bottom line subject Speaker 3 00:00:52 Based in Houma, Louisiana, or was anyway since Sy Ida kind of moved them. Jeffrey Long is a medical doctor specializing in radiation oncology. Of course, that's the treatment of cancer. Uh, as the scientist, Jeff founded the near death experiences research foundation, or N D E RF in 1998, working with Jeff and the foundation as his wife, Jodi, uh, Jeff is the author of the, uh, New York times bestseller evidence of the after life. The science of near death experiences. Jeff has appeared in national media, including the O'Reilly factor NBC today, ABC with Peter Jennings, the Dr. Ahow, the history channel, the learning channel and national geographic, uh, Jeff and I both serve on the research committee of the consciousness and contact research Institute. Speaker 4 00:01:41 So Dr. Jeff Long welcome to behind the paranormal. Speaker 5 00:01:45 Well, it's a pleasure to be here. Uh, thank you very much. Speaker 4 00:01:48 Oh, thanks for having us. And, uh, the putting up with the, uh, the, the <laugh> rather, uh, unpredictable weather we have here in, uh, new England or the frozen chosen as I've heard us called. Um, so I guess we'll just hop right into it. So you have researched your death experiences or NDE is for at least 24 years. So how do you conduct that research and what are your conclusions? Speaker 5 00:02:09 Sure. From the very Dawn of my research, we set up a website N D E rf.org, and it had a survey on it, which is with questions designed by the best scientific methodology. Uh, initially people share and narrow of their experience. And then the current version of the survey asks over 100 questions. Uh, over the years, we are now studying over 3,500 near death experiences that have been shared with the website, uh, in that over 20 year period. So we're able to learn more about near death experience now than was ever possible before. Not only because of the large, not of people that are in our research group, but also because of the large number of questions they'll respond to. So what are my conclusions beyond the shadow? A doubt of a doubt, uh, from this evidence based research evidence of an afterlife is absolutely unequivocally established from my research and the research of many others. Speaker 3 00:03:05 Well, the question Ben, go ahead. Speaker 4 00:03:07 Oh, sorry. Well, I was, I was, I was gonna say it's, um, it's, it's hard. Well, I, I guess with, with the research methods that you use, have you found that there's re repeatable experiences? Anything you can 0.2 patterns, anything like that? Cuz just, just from, from my, my experience and listening to, um, many people who've had, you know, NDS it's, it seems as if they're, they're all very different from, from everybody else. There's really nothing you can kind of point to that says, oh yeah, I've had the same thing. You know what I mean? Speaker 5 00:03:35 Sure. Uh, near death experiences, no two near death experiences that are, are the same. However, when you study many of them thousands, in my case, you see a very consistent pattern of what occurs called elements of a near death experience. Very consistently described some of the stronger lines of evidence for the reality of near death experience and its consistent message of an afterlife is well early on in near death experiences. One of the more common first elements is what's called an out of body experience. Consciousness rises above the body while the body's unconscious or clinically dead. And from that vantage, they can see in hear ongoing earthly events when they go back or, or other investigators go back to check out the, what they saw almost invariably what they saw unheard. It's accurate down to the finest details, even if what they saw is far from their physical body, far beyond any possible physical sensory awareness, a couple other substantial lines of evidence for the reality of NDE is the near death experience among the blind. Speaker 5 00:04:36 Even those born totally blind of reported visual near death experiences. Uh, and we have a small series of people legally blind who had absolutely normal, if not super normal vision during their near death experience. That's of course medically inexplicable. And then of course we have a fairly scores of near death experiences actually that were shared while their heart stopped while under general anesthesia. So under that blanket of sleep, you should have no conscious experience. And then when your heart stops well, 10 to 20 seconds later after your heart stops the EEG or electroencephalogram, that's a measure of brain cortical electrical activity goes absolutely flat. It should be impossible to have any lucid experience at that time, both from the anesthesia and from your heart stopping and at, by the scores, people report near death experiences under exactly those circumstances, their typical near death experiences with all the characteristic elements. So just from those lines of evidence, you can very quickly see near death experiences are in a word real. Speaker 4 00:05:37 Hmm. Speaker 3 00:05:39 Well, one of the things, uh, I want we wanted to get into course were case studies that you've done and examples of, of this. And of course the question is, you know, what is it that constitutes evidence? I mean, we're always talking about, uh, the pursuit of evidence in, in this and related fields. Um, could, is it possible that all the experiences that are reported to you could be, uh, simply neurological now, now you pointed out the fact that when, when you're flatline, your brain is flatline, that that sort of activity is not possible. Uh, that sounds like pretty good evidence to me. I mean, you know, so could a little more about, about the nature of evidence and uh, why it's valid. Speaker 5 00:06:21 Sure. Uh, as we mentioned, and you were right there when you have a cardiac arrest, that means your heart stops beating immediately. Blood Flo stops flowing to the brain. The brain is very, we call metabolically active. So 10 to 20 seconds after the blood stops going the brain, as we said, the EEG electroencephalogram, no measurable electrical activity in the brain at all. And yet by literally the hundreds people are reported near death experiences, consciousness above their body, observing ongoing earthly events, often frantic efforts at others at the resuscitation, uh, methods, trying to bring them back to the life. That's absolutely medically inextricable. And that's certainly very powerful evidence. There's no other way, uh, that that could possibly happen. You can't have a, a lucid conscious, organized, uh, if not super lucid experience while you're measurable brain electrical activity is absolutely flat. And in fact, there was an EEG measurement on someone who did have a cardiac arrest and had a near death experience and indeed their near death experience correlated exactly with a measured flat electroencephalogram. Speaker 5 00:07:27 And then another good example is near death experience is under general anesthesia. It should be. And, and those of you that have had general anesthesia, you know what I'm talking about, boom, you go to sleep. It it's a, there's nothing you don't, you don't have even a fragment of, of memory. And then all of a sudden, boom, ultimately you wake up again. So occasionally when the heart stops at that point in time, not only do you not have blood flowing to the brain, and of course that's very carefully measured during operations during anesthesia, uh, but to have that outta body observation, seeing the frantic resuscitation efforts, and by the way, as a doctor, I can tell you, it's not like Hollywood when your heart stops unexpectedly during surgery, there's panic. There may be unprofessional behavior. It's usually the doctor, the crash cart doesn't mystically appear. Speaker 5 00:08:14 And it's exactly what people that have in near death experience described and not what they could observed from any other source. I mean, it's really what happens. So that's just two examples outta many. Uh, I have a total of about 12 lines of evidence. Those are just two of the more vivid, but there's absolutely no medical explanation possible for having lucid organized, uh, experiences during a cardiac arrest consciousness above the body. What they see in here verified, uh, or to have that under general anesthesia, there's no medical explanation possible for near death experiences occurring. So it's a basic Tet of science, uh, to get back to that very important evidence question. That's what what's real is consistently observed. So by the time you have, uh, scores or even hundreds of near death experiences, all describing that same phenomena, that's a reality that's consistently observed. And that's, that's why we feel so convinced from the evidence of near death experience. Speaker 4 00:09:10 Hmm. So my, my now we're gonna take a, I wanna take a little, little side step here and, um, I, I, I really, you know, you you're, you know, you're pretty, pretty, pretty accomplished doctor, you know, in the field of oncology. What brought you to the study of near death experiences? How, how did you, how did you make the leap? Speaker 5 00:09:30 That is a great question. Decades ago, I was in my residency training for my medical specialty of radiation oncology. That was before we had the internet. It was had long ago. And, uh, we had big old thick volumes of medical journals that we had to go through to find articles, cuz that was our source back then. So I was at the library flipping through what's called the journal of the American medical association. One of the world's most prestige, just medical journals and quite by accident came across an article that had the term near death experience in it. I'd never heard before. And I said, what, everything I knew medically is you're alive. You're dead. What's this near death experience. So fascinated. I stopped what I was doing. Read the article and was amazed here were people having near death experie from this author, a cardiologist named Dr. Speaker 5 00:10:18 Saba all around the world with content of these experiences remarkably similar. And I knew again, as a scientist with that basic principle, what's real is consistently observed there sure. Looked at me like there was something going on. So I stopped looking for my cancer article, read some of the bibliographical articles there and was immediately amazed. I mean, how can you not be fascinated and intrigued by what happens after you die? So I remember thinking prophetically, geez, why aren't more people researching this remarkable topic? Well, this was in the early 1980s when there wasn't a lot of research going out near death experiences were first described back with, uh, Dr. Raymond Moody's classic book life after life in 1975. So there was very little research, sort of got traction by those early days. So that, that really sort of put the bug in my ear, uh, fascination that commitment to learn more about near death experience as an ultimately set up my near death experience research project. Speaker 3 00:11:17 Okay. <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative> uh, have you, well, one of the things and cause obviously we don't have anything near your experience, but we, we, we run into cases mm-hmm <affirmative> and people will tell us they were experiences. Do you find that personal situations, personal beliefs, uh, personal, you know, rates will affect what the near death experience is. In other words, if someone is a, is a person of faith, do they have different experience from an atheist mm-hmm <affirmative> that kind of thing. And, and I've stood at the deathbeds of four atheists mm-hmm <affirmative> and uh, every one of them, they, I was a seminary student. Every one of them took my hand and asked me about God. Every one of them, one of them was a doctor and as death goes, they weren't good deaths, but I said, look, just say, thank you. That's all you have to, you know, and that seemed to help in any case, uh, atheist versus people of faith or mm-hmm <affirmative>, uh, people of different cultures. What differences have you found, if any? Speaker 5 00:12:19 Sure. Now, now that's a good question. Um, I, co-authored a scholarly book chapter that reviewed 30 years of near death experience research. We published that a while back and in that chapter, me and my co-authors looked at a wide variety of demographic variables, age, gender sex, um, certainly religious background at the time of the experience. So after that intensive review of all published prior literature, the group of us could find no correlation between what a person's prior beliefs or lack of beliefs were and whether they would have a dear death experience when they nearly died or what the content of that near death experience would be. So bottom line is remarkably. Uh, it doesn't seem to really correlate well or even not at all with that. And with regard to belief systems, I of course was very curious about that. Our website N D E rf.org has been translated into over were 30 non-English languages, including Arabic and some languages specific to non-Western countries. Speaker 5 00:13:20 So we've received scores of near death experiences from non-Western countries in their native language. And we have them human translated into English so that we can review them. We actually post it in both languages as a quality assurance step, but that's another story at any rate, looking at these scores of near death experiences from all around the world non-Western countries, uh, again, defined as where Judaeo Christian religious beliefs are not, that are not pre dominating. Uh, even these people of widely varied, uh, non Judeo-Christian religious background beliefs have strikingly similar near death experiences. Now words get in the way in a little bit. I mean, how can you translate into non-English languages, unearthly, spiritual things that literally aren't of this earth, but if you read these experiences and I have by the scores, it's, uh, far more striking how similar they are than different. Every single element that occurs in a typical Western near death experience is an typical, uh, non-Western near death experience. And so, and they often have the very similar changes in their life afterwards. So it doesn't seem to make remarkably, it doesn't seem to make any difference, whether you say a Muslim in Egypt or a Hindu in India, or a Christian in the United States, wherever on the planet, you have a near death experience, it's 10 is going to be strikingly similar. Speaker 4 00:14:40 So what are the major characteristics that are kind of shared if you had, if you had to break it down by, you know, the sort of like the, the, uh, the common denominators, what, what would those be? Speaker 5 00:14:50 Sure. The, the typical elements, uh, that are seen in near death experiences, again, no two are the same, but a com a sort of a very detailed, typical near death experience involves. First of all, you have that cardiac arrest they're unconscious from their injury trauma. Um, as a, at that time, when they're unconscious by dictionary definition, they shouldn't have, have any memory they do for those that have a near death experience, their elements can go like this there's that outof body experience consciousness arises above the body, and they see ongoing earthly events. They then pass into, or through a tunnel variably described, but essentially never claustrophobic often at the end of the tunnel, there's a beautiful, typically described as unearthly, not like anything in this earth, but a beautiful mystical light, uh, passing through the tunnel. And they find themself in an unearthly realm, often described as a heavenly realm. Speaker 5 00:15:43 And I think that's very aply named because in that area, there can be, uh, beautiful things. Landscapes. We've heard the people described flowers with colors, so beautiful. There's no earthly coral there're colors that don't even exist on earth. They may hear music that is beautiful beyond anything they've ever heard on earth. Uh, there can be buildings that's often where they encounter their deceased, loved ones. Uh, these are joyous reunions, their deceased loved ones are always in picture perfect health. And that could be a lot of joyous interaction, even deceased pets. Again, even if the pet died of a crippling disfiguring elderly illness, they're essentially always picture perfect health, again, joyous reunions, even with the deceased pets. Uh, so in this, uh, unearthly realm, they may have, what's called a life review where they see part or all of prior life around this time. They're typically feeling overwhelming, intense emotions, uh, very powerful sense of love connection with everything. And everyone is very typically described at this time. In fact, the great majority of people literally don't want to leave that unearthly realm in return to the earthly body where their friends, fan family and loved ones. Everybody they knew before they died are of course still there hoping for their recovery. So that's, uh, if you will, a fairly detailed, uh, elements that occur during a near death experience. Speaker 3 00:17:05 Okay. Um, then you can, uh, ask another question if you wish, uh, you see, we're not in the studio today cuz of the, of the blizzard, no England, but Speaker 4 00:17:15 Frantically taking notes. Um, Speaker 3 00:17:18 I can usually tell when Ben has something to say, you know, Speaker 4 00:17:20 Well I'm, I'm, I'm working on it. Uh, okay. I, I guess, well actually I kind of do, I do have one that immediately popped into my head. Are there, are there physical sensations? Like, do they feel themselves walking, interacting, obviously there's listening, right. Do they have, do they retain all of their senses? Speaker 5 00:17:37 Uh, all five earthly senses have been described in near death experiences and yet they're different in an important way. For instance, uh, while we hear that's a physical thing, part of our physical nature in near death experience is essentially always communication is described as the best word is telepathic, but that's an incomplete word they're sharing if you will, by thought, uh, complete communication. Uh, very often they say all context around what's being communicated is being shared. Uh, and there's no ambiguity and no possibility of miscommunication vision while, uh, we can see with our vision here is different in near death experience. When I interviewed the lady who was born totally blind and had her VI highly visual near death experience, she described what many near death experiences describe. And that is vision in the near death experience is if you will 300 degree vision they're simultaneously seeing and processing visual information in front of them back of them, right. Left and up and down technically spherical information. So we see that too. So while the, all the senses are described in, in near death experiences that we know in our earthly life, they're very often super normal or occurring at a level of beyond anything they ever experienced in their life. Mm-hmm Speaker 3 00:18:53 Interesting now several on several occasions, uh, we, and again, we're on a different street in our research, but uh, people have, uh, come to us with ver rarely but very negative mm-hmm <affirmative> near death experiences. What one was a professor, uh, I remember, and, uh, his experience was terrible. I mean, would you run into that too? You must mm-hmm Speaker 5 00:19:14 <affirmative> uh, sure do. Um, you know, a lot, uh, to nearly die can be a frightening experience and, and it isn't always pleasant. Now the substantial majority of these purported unpleasant near death experiences really aren't one of the more, in fact, I'm a co-author of an article that's gonna be published in the New York academy of sciences in the very near future where we get into this. But in brief, the significant majority of previously published or verbally presented frightening, especially hellish near death experiences. Aren't the most common confounding experience with that occurs that with confused with near death experience is what's called ICU or intensive care unit delirium. I mean, certainly these people have a near death experience as a result of accident, injury, uh, illness, something that made them close to death. And during that close brush with death, after that, when they're recovering, they may spend days, weeks in the intensive care unit. Speaker 5 00:20:13 It's not unusual in the intensive care unit to have frightening hallucinatory experiences they're easily, well, usually easily distinguished from near death experiences by the fact that they are dreamlike, their hallucinatory people often recognize that hallucinatory component when they wake up most of the time, not always a, uh, events in these ICU, if you will, deliriums tend to skip around like greens. They don't flow any early as is typical and near death experiences. But for a lot of people, it can be very, very frightening. And, um, uh, for the people that, that don't recognize that as a delirium hallucinatory experience, um, they, they can actually be haunting for a long period of time. Now how having said all that there's still certainly real bonafide, uh, hellish and very, very frightening near death experiences. In my over 3000 hundred near death experiences I've reviewed is probably in about the 2% range and that's, uh, but so they, they do happen. They're just rare with that order of magnitude. Speaker 3 00:21:16 Okay. Uh, we, um, we'll take our break at some point here, but, uh, before we get into listener questions, uh, I, I did have one, uh that's uh, okay. We we've, um, talked about near death experiences, but, and maybe we talked about death a little bit, but what, what is an after? What, what constitutes an afterlife and, and are we getting into what a physicist would call non locality here as well? In other words, it's, it's not all inside us, what Ben and I call the island theory. And, uh, it's a lot of this, our consciousness is outside of us, et cetera. Can you comment on, uh, the nature of the afterlife and the nature of consciousness 25 words or less? Speaker 5 00:22:01 Yeah, Speaker 3 00:22:01 I'm kidding. Speaker 5 00:22:02 Well, trying to make, yeah. Consciousness clearly exists apart from the body and near death experience. I mean, that's almost literally a defining characteristic of near death experiences, but the consciousness apart from the physical body is clearly operating independent of the physical brain. Remember our prior discussion of near death experiences under general anesthesia or after the heart stops and brain electrical activity is flat. So there's clearly the, and, and that's part of the afterlife consciousness. It exists in, it's obviously a non-material realm. Uh, as we talked about earlier, communication telepathic movement in near death experiences, it's almost invariably described as non-physical, uh, time in near death experiences. One of the most common things we hear is that time is either radically D from our earthly everyday experience or more commonly when time is addressed, they state it doesn't exist at all in a near death experience. Speaker 5 00:22:56 So, uh, it's clearly a nonphysical realm. It's not a separate, independent physical realm from what we live in. It is a radically different realm of existence that is, uh, characterized by being nonphysical. So that's, that's what, what is, is overwhelmingly consistently seen in near death experiences? Is this, uh, immaterial, uh, afterlife. So that's, uh, you know, that gets into that, you know, the episode of discussions about consciousness clearly consciousness exists apart from the body. Uh, it does the near death experiences by the thousands and thousands, not just my research, but really all other year death experience researchers see the same thing. Uh, and that's fascinating to me, you know, as a doctor or somebody who's interested in consciousness, uh, that's just a never ending source of fascination for me to read these experiences and see that over and over again. Speaker 3 00:23:46 One of the questions that might arise are the same question we ask in paranormal research mm-hmm <affirmative> and that's, uh, why are so many, if this is a nonphysical realm or realms, why are things so physical? And in, in our opinion that, uh, in our theories and methods of, of working with the parent normal, we believe in the multiple world's interpretation, and there are many versions of us, uh, mostly physical, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So, uh, but I don't know, we're gonna have time to, to get into that. I don't, I have to leave that for another show, but just, um, uh, well, I'm, I'm gonna do the station ID right now. I'm not sure what's going, but, uh, what you're listening to behind the paranormal with Paul and Benino and w N 12:40 AM and 99, 5 FM in new England's beautiful, but really cold in snowy Blackstone river valley. Speaker 3 00:24:38 And, uh, we, uh, I guess we'll, we'll plow right through here. Pardon the pun. Good pun. Yeah. And, um, keep going. But, uh, with our, with our wonderful guest, Dr. Jeffrey Long, uh, who is in, um, the comparatively warmer climate of, uh, Kentucky right. Of, uh, Louisiana right now. So, okay. Now I wanted to get one or two of my own kind of experiences, cuz your description of, of the vivid nature of the visual experiences is really something. Now I don't know if I've ever really had a near death experience and I wanted to ask you if you did, of course, but uh, Ben was a baby. It was, uh, we were in our, our, uh, old, uh, digs in Cumberland, Rhode Island in the middle of the woods. And uh, I was not feeling very, uh, good at all. Uh, it turns out that I had pneumonia, uh, and uh, atrial fib going on. Speaker 3 00:25:30 I end up in the hospital for 10 days, but um, all of a sudden maybe Ben was sort of lying there as babies do. And uh, I, um, had this vision that just opened up, uh, my whole consciousness of a, a manmade cave, which was very beautiful and, and a lizard, a multicolored lizard. And you know, I'm, I'm not particularly interested in reptiles, but this was one of the most beautiful things I'd ever seen. And the vivid nature of it was as, as you described previously was, was, uh, mind boggling <affirmative>. And uh, all of a sudden somebody slapped me in the face and said go to the hospital stupid <laugh> that's what I hear. And so, I mean, this is not quite the thing I would expect from when I heard about near death experiences, but fortunately, uh, there was someone to stay with Ben and, and I drove myself to the hospital. Speaker 3 00:26:28 And as I say, you ended up there for 10 days. Um, so I mean, there's that, and then, uh, there's a sort of a vivid and, and I attribute this to having been a, a night newspaper editor for years. Uh, I would get up early in the morning to take the boys to the school bus Ben and his brother. And, uh, I would make up for the sleep in the afternoon because I, you, you put out the morning paper at night, so I'd get home one, two o'clock in the morning from the Providence journal. And, uh, you know, I'd make up the sleep in the afternoon and would keep a dream record, uh, from that. And there would be times, uh, in the most recent, really, since I turned 60, that I've been able to duplicate in dreams and sometimes even in waking life, the very vivid, um, visual experience that, that, that I had that not, not that very experience, but different things. Uh, sometimes it'll be spontaneous. It'll very often be, uh, trees and a landscape, but I've learned to, uh, begin to walk in whatever world this is and kind of look around the kind of thing. And, uh, I don't know if there's anything to do with what we've been talking about, but it, uh, the characteristics you, uh, you name are kind of striking and, uh, I mean, am, am I like dying a lot? Or, I mean, what the heck is going on? Like a cat you Speaker 5 00:27:52 In lives? Okay. Speaker 3 00:27:54 Yeah. Yeah. I'm very cat like, you know? Okay. So I, I don't know Jeff, if that's anything you have an opinion on or what, or am I just nuts or what I, Speaker 5 00:28:04 No. Well, I, I have great news for you, Paul. You're not nuts. Uh, not in my opinion. Speaker 3 00:28:09 Oh, thank you. Coming from a doctor. That means a lot. Speaker 5 00:28:10 Oh yeah. That's, that's, that's the good news on that, but yeah. Thanks. No pain. Um, the, you know, first of all, back when you, you had that episode of pneumonia and saw that interesting cave and a lizard, it's hard to really know, you know, especially years later, how to classify that there's a group of so-called mystical experiences that can have content, uh, that are very spiritual in nature and overlap what occurs in near death experiences so that, you know, it's possible. That is, but as far as people that have experiences like that, uh, you really Paul the best person on earth to decide if was real her hallucinatory. And I don't forget you had pneumonia, you were very sick. You may well have had a fever when you have a, especially a high fever you can have. Yeah, I did hallucinations yeah. Associated with the fever. Speaker 5 00:28:56 So, and especially you can get unconscious and we see a lot of experiences that are purported to be near death experiences, but they're not, they're febrile hallucinate. Uh, but the, uh, the best way to tell them is from you yourself yourself's own assessment. In other words, if it felt dreamlike, if it felt unreal, it probably was not a near death experience was probably not a, a, a modified, uh, spiritual, mystical experience. It was probably just something because you were dying sick and you just happened to have a, a dreamlike experience. On the other hand, if it felt as people have your death experiences say was grippingly real. If you really felt that strong sense of reality, if you really felt, especially after the experience that what you learned or how it impacted your life was positive. And, and perhaps you made some positive changes thinking about that and processing your experience, then that would put it more in the mystical experience category, which are, you know, very well and described in the scholarly literature, they're certainly bonafide experiences and they can be as powerful as near death experience so that Paul it's up to you to, to classify it. Speaker 3 00:30:03 Well, I think it, it probably saved my life mm-hmm <affirmative> and then twice that's happened in my life. One that was in the military, and I can't really say much about it, but, um, anyway, uh, let's go to some questions. Uh, we have, uh, Peter Shelly from Bogata Columbia who was, uh, one of our, uh, guest boho from time to time. And he always asks, uh, very good questions. Uh, Ben, I'm sorry, you usually read these, but I, I have 'em here. Uh, this is, um, please ask Dr. Long, has hypnotic regression been used to explore NDEs further? If so, what additional information came out? Speaker 5 00:30:40 Yeah, that, that's a good question. I, hypnotic regression is just basically hypnosis and an effort to sort of relive the near death experience. Uh, I see a lot of folks describe that and, and my personal opinion is it's a bit of a mixed bag if you're having hypnotic regression. And you remember a near death experience that you had no prior memory of, uh, you know, quite dubious about that. I, I really wonder if those are simply memories, false memories and plan as part of the process of hypnosis or searching for a memory that isn't really there. So that, that I, I have concerns about on the other hand, people that have had near death experiences have certainly described going under hypnosis and seemingly other things around either around the time of the near death experience, they forgot, uh, or occasionally some, some increased insights from the near death experience. So I don't know if they're remembering, modified, remembering what happened during a near death experience, or if that environment of hypnosis is helping them to process or, and their near death experience better. But certainly for some people, it can be a valuable adjunct. Uh, I think the great majority of people don't seek out hypnosis. Uh, the great majority of people seem to remember all that happened during the near death experience without requiring a tool of hypnosis. Speaker 3 00:31:59 Okay. Um, we have an additional question for Peter. Do you have any K cases of NDS involving non-traditional or unusual entities? Speaker 5 00:32:10 Uh, well, yes. Uh, quite a few they're they're rare, but by the time you study 3,500 near death experiences, you, you see quite a bit of that. The usual entities in near death experience will start with that descriptor they're they often are described as light, by the way, light's the number one most common word used as describing what happened during the near death experience, but, uh, they're often associated with light. There can be religious beings, gods deceased, loved ones, or just, you know, often described as seeming familiar. And yet they can't recognize who they are, just other beings that are around them. Uh, generally they feel a sense of love, connection and support from them. They're almost never, uh, frightening or adversarial now that we do see some occasional non-traditional beings. Um, it's extremely rare to have, uh, you know, things that are clearly hallucinatory like cartoon characters, like, like in equals one out of 3,500 here. Speaker 5 00:33:06 So you'd have to really wonder about that one. Uh, we did have one person who during their near death experience traveled through the universe. That's not unusual, but this, uh, very detailed near death experience involved them going to other worlds in the universe and actually seeing creatures there, entities there that were alive on that planet. And they remarkably described, for example, a world, which was all under water. There really wasn't land. And the, these were creatures that were, uh, somewhat intelligent that lived in the ocean, several different types. Uh, other descriptions of, uh, land creatures have been described on unearthly realms during near death experiences. And certainly that's very, very fascinating to those of us that wonder about life on other planets. So those are a couple good examples that come to mind. Speaker 3 00:33:54 Excellent. Uh, Peter, uh, ask another question here in a prior interview, you were refer to a dramatic case involving world war II and defending an area in Poland. Mm-hmm <affirmative> can you share full details of this case and why it was dramatic? Speaker 5 00:34:08 Yeah, well, uh, that involved what's, uh, during a life review, as we briefly mentioned, you can see all our portion of your prior life. It's often around that time that a very small percentage of, of near death experiences then be care, become aware of lives prior to their most recent earthly life. This obviously suggests reincarnation as they become aware of their life prior to the time of their, their current earthly life and this near death experience involved them. It was during world war II. They were in Poland actually, and they were aware of Nazi tanks coming over the hill. And he seems to have died around that time in that prior life near death experiences have quite a bit of evidence for reincarnation. That was tough for me to get, I didn't believe in reincarnation at all before I started studying near death experie, but there's so, uh, such a huge number of near death experiences that describe that I ultimately said, well, you know, as a scientist, I have to believe what the evidence shows. Speaker 5 00:35:06 And there, there is very strong evidence for reincarnation. I think that's that that one episode of, of that remembrance in world war II is certainly very dramatic because it's a, uh, a lot of times they become, uh, they have fragmentary memory of prior lie or, or simply an awareness that they had prior lives without a lot of details. This is one of the, uh, quite unusual prior life memories, where they seemed to have a fairly detailed, uh, fairly played out recollection. And, uh, I did research it and, and at least from the geographical location he described, it certainly seemed like it was plausible. There was a, uh, the Germans did invade and they did invade with tanks in that geographic area polling around the time he was describing. So I added up, you know, sort of a, a, a sense of reality by, uh, external verification of what he'd shared. Speaker 3 00:35:55 Okay. <affirmative> um, I know, I, I just want, I know Ben probably wants to ask something here, but, uh, just to get into the notion of reincarnation, uh, I have two issues with that. Mm-hmm <affirmative> one is, um, kind of a tongue in cheek. One, if reincarnation is true, why are there so many ghosts, uh, so to speak? And then, uh, the second one, uh, Ben and I have very little in common with Albert Einstein, but we, we do tend to, uh, uh, embrace the, uh, special theory of relativity where, which, which applies at all time is simultaneous. You don't have a past, you don't have a past, you don't have past lives, which is why one of the reasons we, um, sort of embrace the notion of parallel lives and regression therapy, this will tell us they sometimes will, will, uh, run into cases of, uh, people who are reporting that they're having lives in the future as well, which is, uh, you know, if it's what it appears to be. And if it's true, and if hypnotism is legit, then you know, you, you may be having parallel lives instead. So I said that that's six to one, half dozen of the other, but if, uh, all time is simultaneous, what is, does that do anything to, uh, NDS mm-hmm Speaker 5 00:37:04 <affirmative> Speaker 3 00:37:04 Yeah, the interpretation. Speaker 5 00:37:06 Sure. There's no question about that in the afterlife. Uh, typically people say near the time does not exist there, so, but that's in an unearthly nonphysical realm that time doesn't exist, uh, throughout all of history of humankind. Uh, time is linear. In other words, there was the creation of the universe, uh, around 14 billion years ago, the development of galaxy stars, uh, ultimately life on earth developed. So on earthly life, in our physical realm, there's very clearly a linear, uh, time related progression of events and that's pierced to have been going on since the Dawn of the universe. So it doesn't, uh, surprise me greatly that people can remember past lives. You know, I think that's consistent with living on an earthly realm and, and, uh, being in engaged in that linear time, that seems to be specific to a physical, uh, non heavenly realm. So I, I don't have as much trouble with that as all that. Um, so I hope that answers your question, Paul that's. Speaker 3 00:38:08 Yeah. Okay. Uh, Ben, did you wanna jump in here? Speaker 4 00:38:11 Um, yeah, we're we probably should have asked this beforehand, uh, now that, now that I'm thinking about it, ironically, um, this probably should have been question number one, which is, you know, what is the definition of consciousness? Speaker 5 00:38:25 Yeah, yeah. Okay. That's a good one. Um, uh, and I've actually studied that you can go to Wikipedia and look up consciousness and you can see sort of, as I did a wide variety of perspectives on that, I think, uh, in general, it is basically what we are in our physical bodies. In other words, it's our, uh, sensory input, our processing of that sensory input, our memories, and then the, uh, sort of, if you will, the expression of, of who we are, what we are and everything that we are consciously. So I think it's, it's that that would be, you know, sort of a quick and dirty explanation of what consciousness is related to our physical bodies. And yet that's completely out the window with consciousness and near death experiences, which as we've discussed. And I think presented some very strong evidence, uh, it's not physical, it's not a part of the physical brain. Uh, it doesn't seem to be time limited and it seems to be very different. So I, I sort of look at consciousness from two different perspectives, earthbound, physical consciousness, and then the consciousness described near death experience seems to be non-physical. And as best I can tell, uh, to apparently eternal, Speaker 4 00:39:38 Would you say that there are multiple different kinds of consciousnesses or is it all one big thing? Speaker 5 00:39:44 Uh that's yes. In near death experiences, one of a very common concept is the unity oneness of all. And that includes a unity of consciousness as there's well, a collective consciousness. We asked that very directly in our most recent version of the survey question being, did you, during your near death experience encounter any awareness of a, my mystical connection, unity or oneness, and remarkably about 55% of, of near death experiences said yes. And in the narrative box, it responded, you could vividly see that unity described. So there's no question that, uh, based on some recent research I'm doing there, there is that unified oneness collective consciousness. And that's obviously, that's, that's extremely unearthly where we all generally don't, you know, other than some other paranormal phenomena, we don't really share a consciousness go through your life without being aware of what other people are thinking. They don't know what you're thinking generally. Yes, they're the paranormal research. There may be some exceptions, but that's radically different in the afterlife. Speaker 3 00:40:49 Now, uh, we want to give you a chance before we burn up the hour here to tell us about your bestselling book, uh, what you're working on and your website, where people could find out more. Speaker 5 00:40:59 Sure. Um, New York times bestselling book was evidence of the afterlife, the science of near death experience. So, uh, that's available anywhere, you know, certainly including on Amazon, uh, that was a compilation of actually nine lines of evidence. We only talked about a few of them. Uh, the convergence of all those lines of evidence is near death experiences are in a word real based on tree scientific evidence, by the way, that's was published over a decade ago. And it's, it's held its own. It's been, uh, debated, uh, a large number of skeptics that have never lost a debate, uh, based on the evidence presented in that book, ah, where we're going in the future is BA is, uh, analysis of some of the most re the questions from our most recent version of the survey on N D E rf.org, the near death experience research foundation website. Speaker 5 00:41:48 We're looking into some of thoses. I alluded to, uh, concepts of, to your oneness. We ask questions very directly about love and, and we're getting some amazing insights about the concepts of love and the afterlife and how critical that seems to be, uh, very often described as the core of existence. You know, there seems to be something foundational about love. Uh, you'll certainly say God variably described as Supreme being people near death experiences often say, God is an earthly word. It has nothing to do with this overwhelming, loving, eternal being I encountered that goes beyond any possible earthly word. So a lot of these, we will the spiritual concepts in the near death experience, as well as of course, uh, concepts of the afterlife. And so we're pursuing this more of a aggressively than most other prior near death experience researchers. And, uh, it's exciting. I, I think this is probably the most exciting, dramatic results of, of any of my NDE research so far. Speaker 3 00:42:45 Sure. We have a question from Lauren. I think we have time for, uh, is the, is there any statistic that indicates how prevalent NDE are, for instance, do I, out of 10 people who are brought back to life reported NDE and she adds, thank you. Uh, and she says, fascinating topic. Thank you for, for researching this topic and for sharing your findings Dr. Long. Speaker 5 00:43:09 Okay. Well, first of all, thank you, Lauren. Uh, appreciate those words and great question. And two, uh, there's been at the time of a close brush with death when you nearly die about 10 to 20% of people have a near death experience and 80 to 90% of people won't their unconscious period, uh, period, is, as you would expect is a completely blank slate. Uh, almost always. So, uh, that's, that's the, on that, how, how often near death experiences occur a Gallup poll in the United States published in 1981, estimated perhaps as many as 5% of American adults had a prior history of a near death experience. There's been two other major surveys in other parts of the co uh, world that found approximately percent of the population had a near death experience. Again, there's some methodologic issues and that may be on the high end, but certainly the major point is near death experiences are not rare, certainly in America and all around the world, millions of people have had near death experiences. Speaker 3 00:44:12 Okay. Uh, we have maybe five more minutes, Ben. Uh, do you want to share your experience in the bumblebee? The car we knew was the bumblebee, the skin that never happened because it's, uh, well, you don't have to, but Speaker 4 00:44:26 I don't think it really applies Speaker 3 00:44:28 <laugh> well, the, the term I've been looking into the term, I've heard the term quantum death, or, you know, people who have, I think this might have happened to me last Friday. People who have these experiences, uh, where they should have died, but they didn't all of a sudden they're, you know, driving along normally rather than having hit the, or, uh, the, the choking that was going on stops. And everything's fine. I mean, it could be a neurological phenomenon I suppose, or something. I don't know. Have you ever, I don't know if that even enters, uh, your, your realm, Jeff? Speaker 5 00:45:05 Uh, well, actually it does. Uh, we, we are interested in all these episodes of all consciousness, this concept of driving along and, you know, not hitting a tree, there's two separate things that could be occurring there if there was a life threatening event, but you weren't actually physically injured. Those are called fear death experiences, and those can be very similar to near death experiences. Uh, they statistically are found to have more likely to a life review in it than a near death experience. So those could be otherwise the content and the detail can be remarkably similar. And some of these fear death experiences to classic near death experiences. Now, other times driving along, and there's no trauma, no risk of there being an, an accident you can have, what's called spontaneous outof body experiences. So that's where consciousness seems to be. Apart from the body, you can either be observing yourself, or you can be, uh, times described as a completely unearthly realm. Speaker 5 00:46:03 These are a class of mystical experiences that can have elements of what occurs during the experience very strongly overlapping what's seen in near death experie. So, so they're are fascinating. Uh, that's gonna be an important part of my future research as I look over scores and scores of these spontaneous outof body experiences shared with us, and these are not dreams, and these do not occur in, in a dream state. These are your consci and then boom, you know, for no reason seeming at all your consciousness is apart from the body without any accident, illness, trauma, threat of trauma. Uh, that just happen. Those again, they're rare, but they do occur and we fortunately have quite a few to study. Speaker 3 00:46:41 Okay. Uh, Ben, do you wanna jump in here? Speaker 4 00:46:44 Um, well we only have a couple minutes left. That's why I'm I'm uh, I'm. I'm hesitating. We Speaker 3 00:46:50 Do. 'em another question from, uh, Peter. Speaker 4 00:46:52 Yeah, go for that. Speaker 3 00:46:53 Okay. Uh, Dr. Carl Sagan proposed the theory that near death experiences are explained by birth memories, for example, the tunnel of light being the birth canal and the figure of light being the doctor is, uh, isn't this a, a plausible explanation. Speaker 5 00:47:10 That's great. Uh, that was, there was a proposed explanation for, or near death experiences that as you're being born, you pass through the vagina down, if you will, the birth canal, and then you suddenly, for the first time see light, and perhaps that's a remembrance of near death experiences, uh, rec recapitulated by passing through a tunnel and seeing a mystical light. That was a somewhat popular, possible explanation of near death experience until researchers into near death experience found a series of people who were not born by passing through the birth canal, but were had near death experiences, but their birth was by caesarean section. Uh, and they didn't through a birth canal. They, they simply there was Crean sections surgical procedure. You open up the lower abdomen deliver 'em that way. So immediately after that discovery of a series of near death experience, people that, that had those that were not born with passing through a birth canal that, uh, hypothesis for near death experience very quickly and mercifully went a way. Speaker 3 00:48:10 Okay. Well, I think we're just about, uh, kind of out of time here, but, uh, Jeff, please tell us once again, your website. Speaker 5 00:48:19 Sure. Uh, N D E R f.org for the near death experience research foundation, anybody who's had a near death experience, there's a survey there there's literally thousands of death experience posted in over 30 languages. Uh, in joy, it's been informative and inspiration literally to millions of people over the years. Speaker 3 00:48:38 Outstanding. And thank you for what you do and good luck that you were a victim of, of, uh, hurricane Ida in Louisiana. And you're, you're still searching for, uh, home and, and, you know, you're love and prayers are with you and Jody in that. And, uh, will I be back on once you're settled and, and we'll continue this great conversation. Okay. Uh, Ben, why don't we start with our announcements Speaker 4 00:49:00 Sure thing. Uh, so we look forward to the new England pest in Kittery, Maine, which runs from April 10th through, through the 26th. Uh, it's gonna be a very long event and we'll provide very long details as the dates approach. And you can also visit our show website behind the paranormal.com where you can find over 1000 hours of our regular shows, our special broadcast since 2008 from CBS radio achieve radio and here on w O N a M and FM, uh, including those that have been restored in our [email protected] You can also hear all these broadcasts from major podcast platforms that include Spotify, uh, apple podcasts, and YouTube, and pretty much anywhere you can find podcasts, you'll find us there Speaker 3 00:49:41 And you can download our show app. It's, uh, simple and cute, but it's, um, it's there and it's free, uh, behind the paranormal.com and the main page. There's a link to it. And, uh, it works on iPhones and I think, uh, pretty much any smartphone. And, uh, it'll tell you, uh, the most recent shows and give you links to the videos here and, uh, the audio, whichever you prefer to use. And, um, it'll, uh, also, uh, on our website behind the paranormal.com, you will find, um, much more about the, the show about ourselves, our many cases over the years, our public appearance, isn't how to book us. Speaker 4 00:50:19 And also on our website, it does have a charity page, uh, which includes links to several good causes that we've adopted over the years, uh, including hope for Hilldale cemetery in ha Massachusetts that's, uh, run by our good friend, Tom spit, Larry, who I believe is actually putting on the, um, the, uh, new England pest up in, up in Kittery. So that's yeah, a little we'll call back to that as well. Uh, Speaker 3 00:50:40 USA. Yeah, COVID preventing. Yeah. Yes, Speaker 4 00:50:41 Exactly. Yeah. Knock, knock on wood, huh? Uh, us USA cares. Uh, can you and veterans advocacy helping Haiti's orphans, um, the Crohn's and colitis foundation of America, the sisterhood of ground zero and most recently, um, the Western Kentucky tornado tornado relief fund. Um, these are all on our show website, the charity page, you can check it out behind the paranormal.com. So what do we have next next? Oh, I'm sorry. <affirmative> Speaker 3 00:51:07 Oh, no. I just wanted to point out that, that we know the people who run these charities, uh, cuz we're very, there are a lot of charities that, that look great, but you know, half the money goes to, uh, administration. Well, that's not the case. Uh, with these, we know the people who run them and uh, my particular favorite is helping Haiti's orphans and of course the Western guitar, tornado relief fund as well. And, uh, is there a and our wonderful guest are still with, is there a charity you can think of, uh, that, um, is, is, uh, meant that that's really good for the, the victims of hurricane Ida from last year. Speaker 5 00:51:44 Yeah. Wow. That's I Speaker 3 00:51:45 Mean, put on the spot, you can send it to us and we can put a link <affirmative> Speaker 5 00:51:49 Yeah, no, there's really no specific charity. Just keep us all in your thoughts and prayers. And I think that will be very important. Speaker 3 00:51:55 Absolutely. Okay. So, uh, next week that'll be Fe excuse me, February 6th, we welcome author and consciousness researcher, Thomas Campbell, to talk about his big toe, uh, that's T OE theory of everything, including the larger reality, the takes in the paranormal. Now, uh, I, I listened to a, a tremendous presentation by him, uh, sponsored by the, uh, say in Rhode Island CC. I means communi uh, community college of Rhode Island, but it's actually, uh, in our context, the concert contact research Institute with which Jeff and I and Amy, even Ben are all involved. Uh, Jeff, did you attend his, uh, Tom Campbell's, uh, online, uh, lecture, if you, uh, it was, I think it was a few months ago. Yeah. Speaker 5 00:52:44 Yeah. I, uh, no, I, I didn't have a chance to do that. Uh, I wish I did. I, I, I heard great things about it. That's gonna be an exciting guess. Gosh, maybe I'll have to tune in here and listen to that at this point in time. Yeah. He gave a, a, an important lecture and, and, uh, had a lot of important information. He's really one of the thought leaders on consciousness. Speaker 3 00:53:05 Very good. Okay. Well, uh, yeah, we'll talk about the larger reality it takes in the AOR. So we leave you today with a ponderous quote from Canadian filmmaker, James Cameron, if you set your goals ridiculously high, and it's a failure, you will fail above everyone else's success. Uh, you might have to think about that Speaker 4 00:53:24 A little bit, bit. Well, I mean, that's James Cameron, right. You know, <laugh>, he can say stuff like that. Speaker 3 00:53:30 So anyway, I'm Paul Eno Speaker 4 00:53:32 And I'm Ben Eno. And, uh, we still have a couple seconds here and I, I wanted to make a quick joke, but you, you, uh, you, you didn't gimme a chance. Dad, Thomas Campbell, with the theory of everything little, does he know that the answer to everyth thing is 42, uh, for all, all of our, our, uh, hitchhikers guide to the galaxy fans out there, I'm Ben, you know, and thanks for joining us on our great cosmic journey. And we shall see you next time on behind the para Speaker 1 00:53:59 Return to this radio frequency 167 hours from now for another edition of behind the paranormal with Paul and Ben Eno, Say tune next for Casey case, man American top 40, the eighties next on Owen Ray.

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